Character roster changes

[Foolishgrunt]

(*Disclaimer* I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Smash Bros Brawl section or the Smash Bros 4 section. This thread really is about Smash Bros Brawl, but it's opinionated enough that I ended up sticking it in here. Please move it if it needed to go somewhere else.)

I'm pretty stoked about the new Smash Bros game, as I'm sure all of you are, too. Ever since the original SSB debued for the N64, I've been hooked. But it's brilliant design notwithstanding, there's one aspect that I practically always hear people critiquing: there's no shortage of people who think that they could have come up with a better roster of playable characters.

So I'm interested in you guys' thoughts about the possible character roster for the new Smash Bros Brawl. Do you think the SSBM roster was perfect and shouldn't be changed at all, or do you, like the rest of us, think that it could stand some changes?

Myself, I think the SSBM roster is fairly complete, and I have no major beefs with it. But one I would change if I had the chance would be to eliminate some of the redundant characters. By redundant, I mean that I think Nintendo has too many characters from the same series, and I think they should eliminate some of them before the next release. Here's my blacklist:

1: Pokemon series

Pikachu and Jigglypuff are fine, and I have no problem with them staying put. Pikachu is practically the flagship character for the series after all, so why not include him? Jigglypuff is good too; I know a lot of people who enjoy playing as him for the completely different playing style his character requires.

But after that, it breaks down. Take Pichu for example. His attacks are almost exactly the same as Pikachu, so he's basically the same character with a few minor alterations (examples: his own attacks hurting himself and his supercharged headbutt). Even so, I don't know a single person who prefers him over Pikachu. Granted, my circle of friends may be non-representative of public opinion as a whole, but I don't see any reason to justify keeping him on the roster in Smash Bros Brawl. Mewtwo is an OK character, but in my experience, he's not very popular. And by the time they added a fourth pokemon to the roster, I started thinking they were trying to squeeze too much out of a single series.

Blacklisted: Pichu, Mewtwo

2: Mario series

Mario, Peach, and Bowser are, in my opinion, great assets to the game. Mario is, of course, the well-balanced character that everybody likes, even if he's not their favorite. Peach provides a refreshingly different fighting style from the majority of the other characters, and I've also noticed that she's one of the favorites among young female gamers. Bowser is also necessary because every game needs a lumbering, heavy, powerful character or two.

Dr. Mario made my blacklist for the same reasons as Pichu. Luigi is an tough case. I know several people who prefer him over Mario, but all in all, I find him too similar to his brother to justify keeping him. Also, the addition of Luigi to the list makes 5 Mario series characters, which in my opinion is just too many.

Blacklisted: Dr. Mario, Luigi

Zelda Series:

Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are in my opinion three of the coolest characters in the game. Link has a complete arsonal of ranged and melee weapons which an experienced player can go to town with. But even new players can get a kick out of him. Zelda offers a two-playered approach that is attractive for the same reasons that Link's approach is. Ganondorf is, of course, the lumbering heavy powerful player, made necessary because gamers need another option away from Bowser. And yes, I know my whole point is to eliminate redundant characters, but I don't consider Ganondorf and Captain Falcon equivilant characters. Their attacks may be very similar, but the differences in power and speed are so great that I consider don't consider them to be redundant.

Young Link, on the other hand, is just plain bad. In my experience, he appears to be possibly the least popular character in the game, except when someone is trying to give himself a handicap. His attacks are very nearly identical to Link's, but the advantages are minimal. In my opinion, the difference in power and speed are not great enough to justify keeping him on the roster.

Blacklisted: Young Link

So other than those 5 characters on my blacklist (Pichu, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Luigi, and Young Link), I think the roster from SSBM is a good choice to base the roster for the next release off of.

The one other thing I would like to see is more series represented. Rather than having 4 Pokemon characters and 5 Mario characters, why not throw in a character or two from other classic series like Megaman or Sonic? Now I'm not sure if either of those series are viable options to be used in a solely Nintendo game like SSB, but hopefully you get the point.

That update on the main page about possibly eliminating Young Link almost made my day, until I saw that they would be replacing him with cel-shaded Link. I can't see that swap being advantageous to my agenda in any way. Oh well, you can't win them all.

Now that I've said my *very long* piece, I'm interested to hear what all of the rest of you have to say about the subject. Anybody have a list of grievances of their own, or just want to take issue with one of my points?

[ganondorf2]

I'd have to disagree on this one. I don't want any characters removed.

Also, the Cell-shaded Link is just a rumor, I didn't hear anything on Nintendo.com about it.

[Foolishgrunt]

Yes, I realize that the cel-shaded Link is just a rumor. The point is that I very much hope it turns out to be nothing more.

[ganondorf2]

Gotcha.

[Pommy17]

I'm not really too happy with the idea that the same character, but from a different game should be in smash bros, like Link, and Wind Waker Link. But I'm thrilled with a possible chance of Ridley being in the game. He definitely should have been in Melee.

[Foolishgrunt]

I agree that Ridley would be an awesome addition to the game. With Metroid's newfound popularity (thanks to the Metroid Prime series), I think it's only fitting that another character from the Metroid series should make an appearance in Super Smash Brothers. Besides that, Ridley is just awesome, and I'm practically drooling already.

[vegjr]

If a new Metroid Character makes it into a Smash Brothers game, it's most likely going to be one of the new hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters/Corruption. Nintendo really wants to push those characters because they're looking for a spinoff point, and A Smash Bros. Game is the way to boost a character's popularity.

[Chaostro]

[glow=red,2,300][/glow]Ridley ; ROOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!God I hope it is true that he is making an apearance! WOOT! Ridley! Ridley!

[The Melee Master]

Same here.

[ganondorf2]

I agree.

[The Melee Master]

And I think Meta-Ridley should be one of his costumes....either that, or they'll be separated.

[Pommy17]

What do you guys think about Dark Samus being a possibilty? She has become more popular due to the recent metroid games, and lots of fans want to see her in the game, and although that would be pretty cool, I'd only like to see Dark Samus in the game if her moves are completely different from Samus' and we don't get another one of these 'clones'.

[vegjr]

Like I said before, new metroid characters will most likely be (and, in my opinion, should be) the new bounty hunters.Nintendo wants to push them, and the fans want them pushed, so it'd be a good move for both parties. However, one really musn't completely exclude Dark Samus, as it does have its own unique moves, as showcased in Metroid Prime 2.

[Chaostro101]

Here is what i think the moves for dark samus and meta ridley should be.

Meta Ridley : ^B:Metal Pheonix Rising:Soars high diagnoly for a short time and leaves illusions behind him
down B:Devil spear:jumps and spears with his tail

smash B:Dragon Festival:sends a barage of
homming missiles
B:Demon Pyro: breaths fire{similar to bowser}
Super: Airial Chaos:catapults the oponent in the air
and rapidly slashes them with his claws and then does a pile driver but quickly lets the oponent go to fall painfully

Dark Samus: ^B:Phazon Teleport:[similar to zelda]
down B:Starborn Terror:Jumps kind of high and comes down fast resulting in a minor phazon explosion
smash B:Phazon Boost: She turns into her big boost ball mode and strikes quickly
B:Phazon Burst:Instead Of a charge shot she blasts oponents with many small phazon Bullets, the more that hits the more damage is dealt

Super: Toxin Fever:shoots every oponent with evry explosive ability she has

[ganondorf2]

That's a pretty good list of moves, Choastro.

[Chaostro101]

:DThanks

[Chaostro101]

There is another rumor about kid koopa from mario sunshine apearing in the game.Alot of people were thinking that he could transform like zelda/sheik.

There is only one problem with him turning from shadow mario to kid koopa, what would kid koopa's moves be?

[ganondorf2]

You mean Bowser Jr., and you got me when it comes to moves.

[chaostro101]

I think I have figured out bowser jr.'s moves

Bowser Jr.: ^B: Koopa catapult:He sling shots himself out of a medium sized sling shot
smash B:Shell Toss: Takes of his shell and tosses it like a boomerang [this way it comes back]
B:Koopa fire:Instead of regular ol' fire he shoots fire balls
down B:Imposter: Changes Into shadow mario
Super:Daddy!:Calls his father[Bowser] to beat up on all the enemies

Shadow Mario
^B:Grafiti chopper:Uses his brush like a helicopter

smash B:Paint Shield:he paints a shield that bounces some enemie attacks back
B:Paint toss: tosses paint balls
down B:Remove mask:Turns back into bowser jr.

Super:Masterpiece:Paints a giant bomb

[Pommy17]

Hey chaostro, think you can list windwaker Link's attacks too? That woul be interesting to see compared to Link's moves, and how they'd be different.

[chaostro101]

Here It is:

Cel-shade Link
^B:Dizzy spin:He does the tornado spin (screams a little) and then becomes vulnerable for 2 seconds (ground only)
smash B:Skull Hammer:swings the skull hammer and stuns them for 3 sceonds(like DK's down b move from melee)
B:Light Arrows:shoots a light arrow, unlike link's, the longer you hold "b" the farther the arrow goes plus the higher chance of a ko with the arrow (max is 15%).
Down B:Mirror Shield: If you time it right you can bounce back projectile attacks

Super:Ballad Of Gales:Summons a cyclone with the wind waker

But I want to make one thing clear about the move lists I conjure up, these are just ideas from my imagination, I did not look anything up to make a post made of facts.What I did is merely replied to a request to think up a move list .

Any other requests?

[ganondorf2]

I have some idea for Super Smash attacks for the characters of Melee(that is if they're coming back and I made it up)

Donkey Kong Bongo Blast(based on DK64): sends a sonic blast of sound, hurt and stunning all foes.(team mode is an exception)

Y.Link Hurricane Spin: slashes by spinning out of control has a 2.5 chance of making him dizzy and unable to move or attack

Falco/Fox Arwing Help: sends out help. Arwings attack all foes(unless you have a partner in team mode)

Pikachu Thunder Wave: May stun all foes while attack is doing damage.

Ganondorf either Ganon Attack or Death Wave: in Ganon Attack, he changes into Ganon(for a short while) and attacks all while invincible. In Death Wave, he sends a beam of darkness at all foes.

That's all I can think of.

[chaostro101]

That is pretty good .However the only one that I don't see happening is"arwing help".In case you didn't know in melee, fox and falco could do something like that with the fighter pose (when you pressed left and right on the d-pad rapidly and was not attacked by an oponent) they would do a spin and then fox/falco(depending who you were) slippy and peppy from starfox 64 show there faces on the inside of the R-wings

[ganondorf2]

You're calling to attack, not getting advice that you already know.

[chaostro101]

Yes... I realize this now, I did not consider the posibilitys of it being a super, or did you mean a basic attack

Sorry! Just a little confused today

[ganondorf2]

Lol, it's OK.

[vegjr]

chaostro101 said:

Here It is:

Cel-shade Link
^B:Dizzy spin:He does the tornado spin (screams a little) and then becomes vulnerable for 4 seconds (ground only)
smash B:Skull Hammer:swings the skull hammer and stuns them for 3 sceonds(like DK's down b move from melee)
B:Light Arrows:shoots a light arrow, unlike link's, the longer you hold "b" the farther the arrow goes plus the higher chance of a ko with the arrow (max is 15%).
Down B:Mirror Shield: If you time it right you can bounce back projectile attacks

Super:Ballad Of Gales:Summons a cyclone with the wind waker

But I want to make one thing clear about the move lists I conjure up, these are just ideas from my imagination, I did not look anything up to make a post made of facts.What I did is merely replied to a request to think up a move list .

Any other requests?

You are pretty good at this. Better than a lot of other people I've seen. I just wanted to point out:
A second is a long time in Melee. Consider: Roy's B attack takes a long time to charge up, but it's only 5 seconds. An attack that leaves you open for 4 seconds would not really be worth it, in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, any Link would not need as projectile deflector, as they can already block them by crouching.

[chaostro101]

A very good point

Cel-shade Link was the hardest to think up moves for though

And I hope to make more move lists in the future before ssbb comes out

[The Melee Master]

**Points to edit button**

[Pommy17]

Yeah, that's true about Link, that he can crouch to shield, not to mention that he's also got the Power Shield.

If you like, chaostro, you can also put together attacked for the 10 official characters that we know are going to be in Brawl. I mean, we've seen a few of Metaknight's moves, not all of them, but we don't know what they're called or what they really do and such. Also from the video we've seen that characters like Kirby have some of the same moves from Melee, but perhaps others were added or changed. Maybe you can like predict, or be creative, and make up your own move list incorporating what we know from the video. That would be pretty cool, especially to see what Snake can do.